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M mark 2010-07-29 14:18:36

IMHO & others, at some point I need to say what I did or am doing is what I really intended so that I have a chance at grasping the metaphorical match I strike. Peter Ralston describes it thus:

BofNK 23:56 The Nature of Emotion: ...
"The word want is often used as as either intend or desire. Intention is committing to take a course of action -- it is what we actually end up doing, and so in this way we can say it is what we want to do. Desire is imagining something we'd like to experience in the future. It is indulging a conceptual possibility recognizable as the pleasure-charged effect evoked by imagining that experience coming to pass. This is differenf from what we indend to do. Although there may be an urge or impulse to have a desired experience come about, desire doesn't demand action. Intent does."

... If I did it I intended to do it, the emotional calculus that lead up to it needs no proof maybe just more consciousness.

seth funnypages 2010-07-29 12:34:44

M 2010-07-29 10:40:14 [item 14107]

seth 2010-07-29 09:59:15 [item 14107]

source: C above
Where is that match which lights afire & turns into action? IMHO, its a consciousness thingy.

Well i have not been able to fine the match in my consciousness. I am conscious only of what i do, but not that which causes me to do it ... except of course by examining my habits and working on them. Nor have i ever heard of anyone publishing a believable account of being conscious of that match. My own conclusion is that the match is not accessible to processes of consciousness. You are conscious only of your planning, wanting, intending, and doing and then after the fact of your rationalizations. But the actual cause of the action does not seem to appear as an object in your consciousness. I now doubt that it is worth the effort to look for it there.

Maybe you are only conscious of your planning, wanting, intending & doing & the after the fact rationalizations, but ....

Becoming more conscious of something that is less than fully conscious or unconscious may not thrill you, but for me I like to wake up some more. It lies for me in the distinction intend vs perhaps the distinction desire or want. I'm am mostly conscious of did; with some minimal effort I am conscious of doing & working on more waking consciousness of my intent. I too doubt than anyone can describe it for you just like describing who I am to you will not communicate to you who/what I am for me. No description suffices!

Strange i am almost always conscious of my intentions. If i had planned to do something, then i am always always aware of that planning (intending, intentions) when the moment for action on them occurs. That doesn't mean of course that i will act on my intentions. The problem occurs when the intentions were formed in a different context from the moment when the action is supposed to occur. Such is the motivation for this item.

M mark 2010-07-29 11:02:38

Maybe the oil hyperbole, aided & abetted by the M$M to assist Obama's need for another crisis to exploit, was a bit over top; was a help to extort billion$$$ from BP, though. I wonder if there will ever be a detail accounting of the BP billions plus the taxpayer billions wasted by the government. Who can forget those pictures of oil soaked pelicans?

(***)

MAG: Has Damage From BP Spill Been Exaggerated?

'Has Anyone Seen the Oil That Spilled into the Gulf?'...

AP: Where is the oil?...

Headlines borrowed from Drudge.

M mark 2010-07-29 10:40:14

seth 2010-07-29 09:59:15 [item 14107]

source: C above
Where is that match which lights afire & turns into action? IMHO, its a consciousness thingy.

Maybe you are only conscious of your planning, wanting, intending & doing & the after the fact rationalizations, but ....

seth funnypages 2010-07-29 10:28:47

M 2010-07-29 10:08:54 [item 9743]

seth 2010-07-29 09:43:49 [item 9743]

I think you need to get the system working and then you can work out the supply chain. I wouldn't expect anything to spring into existance totally perfect from the start.

On another matter, we generate here in our one household about (really rough estimate) a pint of grease every week. That is primarily bacon grease and grease from the Foreman grill on which i make Jason's almost daily hamburger. I collect this in a vat and then don't really know what to do with it. Only thing i have come up with is to wrap it in a paper bag and put it in the recycled garbrge and hope it doesn't foul the bio-digesters in Maple Valley. I really would like to do something more useful with it. Any practical ideas?

Send it to Daryl Hannah or one of the other biodiesel celebrities ; or ask one of them. For me, it's only a stopgap measure to lessen economic pressure from foreign oil - it still burns something!

i'm more prone to Google for it or ask a techno freak than ask a politician

M mark 2010-07-29 10:08:54

seth 2010-07-29 09:43:49 [item 9743]

Send it to Daryl Hannah or one of the other biodiesel celebrities ; or ask one of them. For me, it's only a stopgap measure to lessen economic pressure from foreign oil - it still burns something!

seth funnypages 2010-07-29 09:59:15

source: C above
Where is that match which lights afire & turns into action? IMHO, its a consciousness thingy.

M mark 2010-07-29 06:28:28

M 2010-07-29 06:26:33 [item 8218]

[uri http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727704.700-biodiesel-from-algae-may-not-be-as-green-as-it-seems.html] - (maybe not so green). The input-output of the energy system as a whole should always be calculated. Like a move to electric-battery cars should calculate the energy footprint of making the batteries as well as generating the electricity to charge the car.

C choy 2010-07-28 13:25:05

An amusing sequel to the above in the days when GW would hold court in the front room at Walgrove with some of the family around I asked him about the will-power thingy. He answered with what is now the famous Nike slogan (as do you.) I guess at one point you both agreed. The problem I had then, as now, is it begs the question. Where is that match which lights afire & turns into action? IMHO, its a consciousness thingy.

C choy 2010-07-28 08:12:26

C 2010-07-28 07:55:36 [item 14107]

Too bad you don't remember the incident. It may have been like a seminal moment which seems to have caused you to rebel against the old man , maybe even all he stood for & taught.

Not a problem - I can & do integrate it all, from modern psychology, ontology (not your definition), R.S., A.C., T.R., M.H., W.E., modern science & mathematics as well as G.W. & with all of their distinctions. Distinctions within life do not remove the unity of all of it!

I will let the rest of your definitions, etc. ferment a while to see if the wine therein is ready to taste.

ontology

"metaphysical science or study of being," 1721, from Mod.L. ontologia (coined in Fr. by Jean le Clerc, 1692), from Gk. on (gen. ontos) "being" (prp. of einai "to be;" see essence) + -logia "writing about, study of."

seth seth 2010-07-28 06:26:47

Nope, i don't remember the incident at all.

Your right, we are mushing together a lot of different things in this dialogue. Here let me give my interpretation of the things your identified ...

willful - You say somebody is "willful" when they do something that you do not want or expect them to do. This is a relative judgment about of a person's actions from outside by another person. I doubt that many people will apply that term to themselves ... unless they are expressing that other people have found them willful and they are jut going along with it. I used to think that Lotus was willful. I wonder where i got that idea.
will-power - is pretty much the topic of this item. It is the ability to act according to our intentions.
the will - LOL, no such thing. This comes from RS and our upbringing. For me it is an attempt to embody the process of action into a personal body. In my ontology there are no personal "bodies" ... there are just processes. This is more a semantic issue, than anything else. I just like the process ontology rather than breaking stuff up into cute little bodies.
doing - same as action. LOL, this is where it is at. Too bad Niki patented it .
being - this is your thing ... i never have understood it yet.
desire - a strong feeling to experience or re-experience something.
intention - a conscious plan of action (doing).
having - the process of legal control of some object ... i.e. "to possess". This word can also be applied to abilities ... so it can be said that we have this or that ability.

M mark 2010-07-24 14:06:31

Do you remember the incident in question very well? There was definitely a turning of the cheek to offer the other one, perhaps because the one he hit was still stinging. There was a challenge for GW to do it again which surprised him enough to change his mind.

We have collapsed the notions of willful, will-power, the will, doing, being, desire & intention & even having to such an extent that some of these distinction are muddy. The Thelemic motto teases it out a bit, but you might have to read a lot of commentaries to find out what it means or redifine it yourself.

You might say that Iran in the form of the clerics & Ahmadinejad has more will to develop their nuclear programs that the rest of the World has to stop them.

IMHO, because I still am working on it, free will shows up when I do something I love without quibbling. You could call that will-power or the power of love or something else!

seth funnypages 2010-07-23 07:58:31

source: M above
I have thought that you have a lot of will-power. One of my early memories of this was when GW slapped you in the face & you defiantly offered the other cheek with a "go ahead" stance. I might, otoh, have either slugged him or left the room. If you have a lot of will-power (like you & GW) it is like the water to a fish swimming in it or like the air to us.

It is so very strange then how things look different from the inside. Perhaps you did not know that i have struggled with my "will" all my life ... and even pretty much have given up on it ... saying to myself that controlling myself to do what i rationally intend is a lost cause. The best i have come up with is the plasticity of my habits ... those to some small measure can bow to my "will" ... but not in the now ... only over larger time frames.

The example you give would not have applied to what i would call "my will"; for it would have been unthinkable for me to strike Genesthai ... that action simply would not have been in the vocabulary of my muscles to move ... leaving the room might, but even that is not something that i tend usually to do. I don't remember an attitude of turning the other cheek.

I don't know, perhaps you are thinking about some of the larger changes i've made to my life ... like running away etc. Yeah, those, i've never had problems with ... just done them. But my day to day activity seems mostly to be governed by whims and attractions ... sans of course my intentional habits.

M mark 2010-07-21 10:07:27

I am fascinated with my own & other people's motivation - how does it work? I studied NLP, a field which I may have invented had I not run into it externally, to get another chunk of the puzzle. GW & others opine that the will is mostly asleep - akin to deep sleep; humans not very able to be totally conscious of what torches off action as compared to being much more awake in feelings & thoughts.
I have thought that you have a lot of will-power. One of my early memories of this was when GW slapped you in the face & you defiantly offered the other cheek with a "go ahead" stance. I might, otoh, have either slugged him or left the room. If you have a lot of will-power (like you & GW) it is like the water to a fish swimming in it or like the air to us.

In being able to analyze human makeup into thoughts, feelings & will we often forget sometimes that it's all an integrated whole. I think the will-power thingy is a corollary or way of being underlined in the Thelemic motto. This generation has gone in the other direction to whatever feels good.

Your method is similar to the NLP (via Robbins) questions. It's a swish pattern between one state & another by asking questions. I can't lay my hands on the whole process at this time but I implemented it in CyberMind. Being conscious of your own being-self as in BofNK eliminates some of the sleepiness in the will - if you are conscious of your source you will be congruent in your actions.

seth funnypages 2010-07-21 05:48:22

Yes, p.1944 does seem to have some bearing on this item, thanks. Thing is, personally i don't place much faith in "force to perform some task" ... it never seems to work for me. Hence i use plastic habits to perform that function which "can be supplied by using Rhythm. The most trivial habits & mannerisms are important, not necessarily intrinsically, but simply as habits".

This also is why personally i don't much like the whole concept referred to in our upbringing as "will" because it does smack of "will power"; but i have found no power there. Rather i prefer to just refer that to "action" ... err "doing something" ... and whatever precedes that might better be referred to as "courage". If there is a struggel there ... between will and wont ... i prefer to just call that a struggle betwee timidity and courage. But, me, i prefer there not to be a struggle there at all ... where there is a struggle it's like i have already lost. That struggle, should it have to exist, me thinks is best moved up a notch ... to the development and evolution of habits. There is where i am looking for that Hallelujah effect ... there is where i can express my love of life ... for it is there where i am living it. But that is just me ... your mileage will vary ... all over the place.

C choy 2010-07-20 13:53:48

For your amusement (or not) here is the G.W.'s Tai Shu commentary for the Yi King hex for today (at least in Paradise):

P.1944 #26,5 71-1-1-5-10-3-TUE (39/6/15 or 39.54 yrs ago)

" ... KU: kon poo ye lun peen P.1833 & P.1946. Plenty here for everybody - no one has been neglected or is ineligible! One lesson learned is when force to perform some task is not sufficient its function can be supplied by using Rhythm. The most trivial habits & mannerisms are important, not necessarily intrinsically, but simply as habits. In any context always consider more than this one life. As you are already aware this Hex has intimate correspondences with Our .'. Lord's Prayer, which comprehends in its structure all human bodies &/or vehicles. When we are born physically the World gives us birth; we cross the Threshold to enter a World spititually to which we have given birth & whose organisation we had the opportunity freely to build. "

I include it mostly for its mention of habits & rhythm.

seth seth 2010-07-20 08:52:32

MR 2010-07-20 07:31:31 [item 14102]

seth 2010-07-18 06:51:13 [item 14102]

C 2010-07-17 14:03:30 [item 14102]

Looks like a wrap & a pile to me! Is the pile what goes inside the wrap?

Visually it may need some work ... i'll make another one today and maybe get a cross section of the wrap.

The picture is fine, the question remains. Is what's in the burrito the same stuff that is on the plate? The recipe/formula is not entirely clear to me. I will probably try it next week.

No, no, no ... the wrap contained: "fresh tuna, leftover from yesterday's grilling, was pâtéd and wrapped with smokey cheese and lettuce and then drizzled with my mayo". It's my tasty variation on the classic tuna salad sanwich.

For today i got some yellow tail tuna which i intend to grill up today for lunch. Tomorrow i'll make another wrap

. My variation on the eggplant today is going to be a tarragon broccoli puree. Gonna serve that with my grilled tuna and some soup ... pictures at 11.

MR projects 2010-07-19 18:53:11

The notion of an adhocracy showed up today.

Wikipedia: ... Adhocracy is a type of organization being antonymous to bureaucracy. The term was first popularized in 1970 by Alvin Toffler [1], and has since become often used in the theory of management of organizations (particularly online organizations), further developed by academics such as Henry Mintzberg

...

M mark 2010-07-19 10:13:07

seth 2010-07-19 09:16:40 [item 14087]

Well sure, comedians poke fun at a person's race all the time. But a black comedian poking fun at his race will get more laughs than a white comedian poking fun at a negro (eg Karamer). Unless of course the white comedian is playing to a room of racist skin heads.

I don't buy the meme that poking fun at Obama's race is now fair game; but i can see how his opposition would like that to be the case.

What is your real point? I still don't know. Certainly it's not that now it is acceptable in America to poke fun at Obama's race and that anyone who complains are themselves a racist. Is it Mark? If that is case, then please change my moodicon to a guffaw.

My piece on changing context didn't spring from this item, but your certainly welcome to try it in this regard.

Having missed my entire response because of your jerking knee the following is probably pointless but I offer it anyway:

Kramer wasnt funny in the first place! Never was to me. If racism is PC-bad for a black it equally bad for a white & visa-versa!
The cartoon did NOT poke fun of Obama's race - your own racism did [via: item 714] & others.
The cartoon to me was just humor (it warned you to lighten up!!!!!)
It is not I that need to change context it is you - from racisim under every criticism of your favorite president, Obama to just another president whom quite a few do not agree with.

M mark 2010-07-19 08:08:29

seth 2010-07-18 22:22:39 [item 14087]

source: C above
I'm sorry, I just don't get the derogatory - it must be in the mind of the beholder. If I saw a Mexican with a smile on his face enjoying a burrito would that be derogatory?

Look at the cartoon and tell me it's not derogatory. The cartoonist is making fun of the president because he can be lured with nothing more than a watermelon because he is a negro. Jesus Christ, Mark, do i need to explain your own racism to you?

Anger indicated by your soft swearing about my shift in context belies a hint of your own racism. At the bottom line of anger is frustration at powerlessness in the matter & trying to assert power by force. Check it out! I shifted the context from the PC seeing of racism under every rock to a rational examination of what is really there. Rationally, there is nothing racist unless you hold (context) it that way! There is nothing sacred about this or any other president: making fun of presidents is part of political dialogue. You failed to move with the context. You have to become post-racial to enjoy the context & the humor. Our president, far from being post-racial, is more PC racial then his predecessors (mostly to hold claim on his sagging voter base). Items [item 714] & [item 10838] will give you the clues. Or, maybe, you should follow your own advice & see a new context.

C choy 2010-07-18 11:20:19

seth 2010-07-18 10:46:27 [item 14087]

C 2010-07-18 09:57:41 [item 14087]

seth 2010-07-18 09:34:00 [item 14087]

source: C above
Why would a watermelon appear as an enticement to a black person as in the original cartoon in the item suggests? If I were forced to eat watermelons, & only watermelons, I would hate watermelons after a while - there would be no lure no matter how sweet they taste.

I don't get where your "forced to eat watermelons" comes from. The meme goes that black folk love watermelons ... hence it is a lure.

Then why did you bring slavery into the picture? Do blacks like watermelon any more than whites or browns or yellows or reds? Was watermelons all they could grow to survive?

I brought slavery into the discussion to answer your question: "Why is watermelon associated with colored people?" That is a reasonable question for a historian to ask. I gave you my off the top of my head query to Google. My theory being that watermelons were abundant in the fields of the South and so people started seeing slaves eat watermelons all the time. I didn't do any research and i'm not totally sure that is the case ... but it does hang together well ... and does answer your question. It is derogatory simply because people made it derogatory .. the subject cartoon is a perfect case in point.

I'm sorry, I just don't get the derrogatory - it must be in the mind of the beholder. If I saw a Mexican with a smile on his face enjoying a burrito would that be derrogatory?

C choy 2010-07-18 07:51:28

seth 2010-07-18 07:13:51 [item 14087]

C 2010-07-17 14:02:27 [item 14087]

seth 2010-07-17 13:16:28 [item 14087]

Strangely enough this association may not be all that very arbitrary. Where it started and why might be googableable ... may i suggest: watermelon negro slaves plantations.

Not terribly convincing; being a link to a bunch of shit. Maybe watermelons are easy to grow in some areas. Why it would become a positive enticement rather than a negative is still up for grabs.

Well it's pretty obvious, isn't it? Everything about the black man has been projected as negative ... from black face, to soft hair, to big lips. Now how does that saying go: there is nothing evil that thinking does not make it so ... i'm sure i got the wording wrong, but you probably remember it.

I think the weight of the grinding axe you are carrying around is too heavy & affects your ability to answer the question. Why would a watermelon appear as an enticement to a black person as in the original cartoon in the item suggests? If I were forced to eat watermelons, & only watermelons, I would hate watermelons after a while - there would be no lure no matter how sweet they taste.