Thoughts are singular and unique to the person thinking
Seth Russell Anyway this proposition, "Your thoughts are not your own", is a tricky one. Me, I don’t think ownership should even be considered over the domain of thoughts. I like to reserve that for the domain of things that can be purchased with money or contracted to be legally possessed. It is a legal concept. Thoughts are neither legal or illegal.
Do you dare to know that Your thoughts are not your own?
We need a more pertinent concept. Try singular or unique. Then i think we can agree that each thought that occurs is quite singular and unique to the person thinking it, for without the background of their singular and unique experiences it would have no meaning. It is after all the meaning of the thought that we are considering here.
Now you can think a thought that could be expressed in the same words as a thought that i also think. But you will understand that thought against the background of your unique history and experiences ... not against mine. So i would say the thought as you think it is singular and unique only to you. It would be similar to mine only to the extent that we have the same background and history of relevant experiences.
For me this understanding is a prerequsite for considering the matters brought up by the Council.
if not, well then that “experience and history” is what gives the thought its meaning.
#experience #history #meaning #thought
if your life is meaningless then you are in the blissful innocencnt state of a newborn baby … far fucking out !!
One man’s empty & meaningless is another man’s freedom – no matter what kind of #aug you want to attach to it.
“One man’s empty & meaningless is another man’s freedom” is certainly true …
that follows directly from my thesis …
each thought that occurs is quite singular and unique to the person thinking it, for without the background of their singular and unique experiences it would have no meaning.seth above
when i am held by some meaning, as per the Actarian’s Council’s concern, i know how to change it … maybe i can break free … maybe not … in either case i know what to try and change, the background against which my experiences are happening.
In the end i reach the same conclusion as does the council …
… and that is what counts.
[unwanted memes] have absolutely no power over you unless you give them that power … unless you let them define you.the 9th Actarian Council
shucks why would i give up the feeling of the rich texture of significance?
… how sweet it is!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sloppy+seconds if that.
so no, i am not going for sloppy seconds.
This understanding IS the current shift in consciousness and is visible in many current trends of thinking and systems relating to reality. It is the underlying idea behind even #loa philosophy.
Thoughts are not just in your head and not just yours. They are things. Your head simply tunes them in so that your consciousness can experience them.
are two propositions that i need to examine with more detailed examples. There are many kinds of thoughts … this may be a over generalization … and i am concerned with just how closely this “vibration” metaphor tracks the actuality of thinking. Then too those propositions have many aspects … like the trunk of an elephant versus its ear … you may be looking at one aspect and me another and seeing quite a different animal.
- “thoughts exist apart from their representations in our minds” *AND*
- “we ‘just’ tune in to their vibration”reworded from nathan
Anyway i’ll compare your description to several actual thoughts that are “vibrating” … er “rattling around” in my mind … i like to think in specific examples rather than broad generalizations.
I’ll collect these in #ThoughExamples … one is there now.
… anyway just my perceptual ontology with more meat on the bones.
I want to be specific about that which does not .. so i will highlight that which strikes me as wierd …
- i think there is a type of thought that “exists without us” … but i have yet to find a good example here.
- When i create a thought, as you desribe above, it does not “exist outside of me” unless i effectively express it outside of me.
Try that. See if you can do it. I can’t. I can have a thought appear, one moment it is not there, the next it is … but try as I might, I can’t “create one” … not in any way that I can recognize the creation of it. I can create a painting, or a poem, but thoughts simply are not there one moment and there the next, in my experience.
The thought associating or connecting this pose to collecting blackberries on a September morning in the nude was made exclusively by me.Seth
The tinker toys of existence have already been invented.
– Mark de LA
You seem to imply that the pattern existed before i made the pattern … but you have no evidence that the pattern existed in any form whatsoever before i connected the dots together and linked them to the background of my experience.
I just don’t see how you can say you created the thought is all. By all observable qualia, you simply tuned that “complete thought” in and then related it.
incidentally #BThought is an even simpler #ThoughExamples of me creating an association that never existed before my act of creation.
what does not compute over here is that the thought (the association) *always* existed prior to the tuning.
Look at static on a TV screen, tune into whatever you want. Try to tune into something that you did not already get from elsewhere in your experience … in other words, make up something new. i will bet that you can … and then you will see it on the screen. i predict that you are better at that am i.
That you “tuned it in” complete makes more sense than that you created it without knowing how you did that.
Anything can be #associated with anything else … but that mere infinite possiblity does not lend any meaning to those associations. Rather a meaning must be attached (created) by some being who thinks. Otherwise me thinks you are just imagining mirages.
If you don’t think thoughts exist, try creating a new one. I bet you find you can’t. You only receive them.
incidentally i agree, the being who thinks is the tuner. In the case of a TV channel they narrow down the possiblities of association but do not completely determine them. which is why i suggested static. and the source of static is irrelivant.
Thereby, I choose a source for thoughts that does not require me having “created” the thought. Then I don’t get lost in assumptions I cannot observe or prove.
Thoughts appear to me complete without any experience of me creating them. Therefore I choose a source outside myself for their location of creation and existence, just like I do for all other things that appear to me complete, like this computer I am typing on right now. I do have the experience of a particular quality of thoughts coming to me based on the state I am in and that deliberately changing my state changes the kinds and quality of thoughts I experience. So the model that says thoughts are created and exist outside of me and I tune them in with my state of being seems to fit everything I actually experience quite well.
The idea that we individually create thoughts seems like an old and unexamined idea … much like the idea once held that the world is flat or that it is impossible to create a flying machine. Ideas evolve to better fit what we actually experience and are able to do. Right now our understanding of what thoughts are is evolving to better match what we actually experience in relationship to thoughts … and better support us in our evolving social interactions too! Owning thoughts is weighty and cumbersome and subject to ego involvement of all kinds, while tuning in thoughts, which exist as things, and not being responsible for ownership, but only for value created by a thoughts use, is exciting and opens up many new possibilities in social interaction without ego and shame and with cooperation and synergy.
This is the thought I choose to tune in … the thought that our understanding of what thoughts are evolves and outgrows the idea that we must create them. Thoughts are gown outside of us, like all things that come to us complete and nurish us.
Authentic insights and validation by excitement … that’s how I roll.
i too can “choose” to consider things that come to me “complete” as coming from outside of me.
But then i have the same feeling twards most of what i feel and do … not just what i think.
Thing is, all thoughts are not the same … nor are all feelings or deeds. In many of my thoughts and feelings and actions i am aware of my hand in constructing them. I wiggle things around … that is me doing the wiggeling and not some external thing. Sans me doing that wiggeling, the thought (or feeling or deed) will never exist.
This one is a great example of how i created a thought …
… as i was posing for the video i realized one moment where one aspect of the essence of that thought was reflected in my eyes.
← here it is cut out and published for all to see
Except perhaps in the picture above … there it appears you might just be wiggling something else.
The picture above wiggels, now in front of your eyes, just one aspect of September Blackberry Breakfast. Trust me on that, it is, after all, my wiggle. if you see something else, then that is you doing a wiggeling, or making an interpertation, not me.
yep … startling as it may seem to you … i am talking about #static and not what you started talking about, a TV station that exists prior to the tuning.
Look at this static here … that moving picture represents all possible pictures that can exist in that space.
Tunning is what a person does to make something in that #static meaningful to themselves.
if i create (as opposed to just reproducing), i wiggle the possible meaningful patterns to one that i like … and then i can see it and the thought is thunk.
Sure i agree, tuning in a TV station is recognizing a pattern that exists prior to the tuning. Just like mark took my September Morn picture and tuned it into something pornographic. That was a case where the TV station existed prior to mark’s tuning in his cute interpretation. That is not what i am talking about. I am talking about creating something that did not exist before i tuned it in from the chaos of all possible associations.
Seems like nonsense to me. Tune to make static into something? Not science. Not logic. Not even intuitive. To tune there has to be something there. And there is. All desire becomes thought. It’s all there, simply waiting for us to tune it in by matching our state of being to the the thoughts we receive. That fits. That makes sense. Turning static into something is just wishful thinking I think. Seems like you are trying to make what is clearly a round world flat again … probably because you have thought about it being flat for so long the idea that it could be round just doesn’t sit well with you.
Nevertheless it works.
Take static and broacast it over a speaker … connect the speaker to a microphone in a traditional feedback loop … move the mic close to the speaker and turn up the volume … you will hear a pattern that is certainly not static. That is just the way feedback works. Was the screech there in the static before you tuned in that feedback?
Or more pertinantly look at the trend in #ai with #DeepMind aka #DeepLearning … in particualr About: research blog: inceptionism: going deeper into neural networks
← these patterns are created just by the filters that are applied and amplified in feedback loops.
Or maybe take a look at some #CogSci experiments where this stuff has been reproduced again and again even in humans.
another simpler example is seeing patterns in the clouds … in the chaos of the winds of vapors.
#btw nathan are you telling me that you have never stared at static and ended up making patterns in it?
Again the point here is to distinguish between your navigaing attention around pre existing things … rather than creating them. Your assertions from authority are irrelevant to me. I am showing that pre existing things are not necessary for perception and creation to work. These examples work for me and can be reproduced by anyone … yours seem to me just notions that must be assumed by authority or faith.
The whispers you present do not describe the richness of my thoughts and experience. Tuning my thoughts in from a cloud of available thoughts both describes my experience, the richness of it’s variability, the vastness of it, why all my thoughts are complete as they come to me, and easily tells me how to move beyond, to what is coming next in human interaction.
But It seems true that there are patterns in nature … like “speces of lizards in the Galapagos” …
← and even thorny #blackberries.
I do not create those patterns …
but like you i tune those in from “available [pre existing] patterns”.
Then i select out from the infinite possible combinations and relationships which suit my fancy to create new patterns which were not there before.
Your recent descriptions of life seem to eliminate that aspect … stressing to me that everything already exists and one merely flits upon it tuning one’s attention to experience what excites with no effect on the fabric itself. For me that attitude negates the very essence of living.
All I can say is “It is not like that”. If it were, I would be quite put out and board and underamazed. Quite the contrary, I am amazed and delighted and constantly surprised how rich and full of wonder and fun and creativity it is out here where we tune in to existing thoughts and surf the fast moving and evolving edge of life, the universe, and everything.
For sure there are available delights, and always will be, where you have staked your claim on what you think reality is. But reality itself is moving fast forward and the center of bliss is further from your homestead than you wish to venture anymore. I personally believe this is why humans have limited lifespans. It has been the nature of humans to stake a claim and stay put once they think they know what life is all about … and that very stopping of movement becomes, in the body, aging and the eventual reset of corporal life to a new body and state of being that is ready to move forward again for a time. Some, perhaps me, perhaps not, it hardly matters, will begin to stay in the current and move freely forward with the wave of evolution and those will have a different relationship to aging and time. Learning that thoughts are things and exist outside the mind and body is an important step to this new way of surfing the reality wave. And it is fun. It is exciting. It is full of love and relationships and compassion and joy and continuous new things and ideas and emotions and creativity and everything else anyone could or has ever wanted from life. All of that is plentiful in this fast moving stream of joyous life flowing forward in ever changing and evolving ideas. You only think it is not what you want to experience, you imagine that, you don’t know it, for you have not tried it to find out. You only compare the notion of what you think is up there to what you are comfortable with in your current surroundings. You are, as the majority of humans have traditionally been for quite a long time now, a reality homesteader, not a leading edge surfer. As Abraham says “It is not crowded on the leading edge, but it is one hell of an awesome ride!”.
and as it talks about you, i quibbel with it not.
But those things you presume about me are, as usual, totally off the wall.
They exist merely as stories inside your own mind.
I know there are “thoughts are things existing outside my mind and body”. At the same time i also know that there are thoughts and things that are inside my mind and body. I am studying how those two different kinds of things flow from on state to the other. The former is the act of perception … the latter is the act of expression … and yet in the final analysis they cannot be completely separated … it is not a binary choice.
The act of creation takes things from inside my mind, and puts them outside where they never were …
it does not merely navigate my awareness to a universe where they already existed outside myself.
The rest seems to be part of some story that are writing about me.
It’s the human story in these parts, not exclusively mine. You do have the choice to read it or not. Its a manual. A manual for gaining as much as you can from your remaining life experience. The procedures you are using now are out of date … you have not updated them.
You don’t have to do anything. Life does not require things of you … you require things of yourself. The simple fact is … you are exposing yourself to the upgraded manual. The purpose for that is yours. Showing you the pages is mine.
but i rather think that the recipe for making blackberry jam is quite a bit more reliable
than is the recipe for making a bowl of blackberry love