The Mind Body Paradox
The body is in the mind, and …
The mind is in the body.
In actuality there is the experience happening now, and it is completely valid as it is, and that experience is what is. Everything that makes up the current experience are conditions of perspective. Talking about mind and body are conveniences we use to label perspective with, hence the apparent paradoxes … they don’t really exist.
Chapter 3 of #GofB begins:
In the view of evolutionary psychology, the mind is a set of information-processing machines that were designed by natural selection to solve adaptive problems faced by our hunter-gatherer ancestors. Cosmides & Tooby
3:1 Of necessity our brains developed in ways optimum for survival within our physical and social environments, working with astonishing swiftness to categorize incoming information. The foundation for this ability is not a given, however, but is actually developed as we grow through learning. In this way, we “create” our perceptive-experience, opening the door for much mischief to occur. Such creative ability is a double-edged sword. On the one side, it provides the possibility of inventing powerful tools for learning and change; on the other, it creates the probability of generating fundamentally false perceptions.
Ralston, Peter. The Genius of Being: Contemplating the Profound Intelligence of Existence (Kindle Locations 564-572). North Atlantic Books. Kindle Edition.
Well a lot of this paradox is mostly in this language that we must use to think about it.
In actuality there is the experience happening now, and it is completely valid as it is, and that experience is what is.
It struck me that most people normally talk about “reality” as “what is” …
but then we agreed that “reality is your experience of it” … see About: A Taste of Mind (comment 78711).
I think we need to make explicit and precise in our statements and definitions what makes the difference between “actuality” (or “what is”) and “experience”. It seems clear to me that when we talk of “what is” or “actuality” or “factuality” we are talking about what happens independent of an observer. When we use the word “experience” then we definitely are talking about what happens dependent on some observer. Both points of view are valid … yet they can yield radically and dramatically different accounts … hence the paradox does emerge.
It really is that simple. No need to make it more complex. The differences in terms are only placement of perspective.
i would like to observe that account is based on your belief that “What happens independent of an observer does not happen”.
Me, i can believe that (extreme case) or not and it would make no difference to me one way or another.
However i do firmly believe that “a vast number of things happen which are never observed by human beings”. And that does make a big difference to me.
Who is to say that all forms of life, and consciousness, even the simple consciousness of a single cell, do not observe? And thus are part of the experience we call reality?
It is one of those words which can’t be pinned down very well like:
NOW, NOTHING, EVERYTHING, INFINITY, BEING ….
Well, nathan, if you drive along 5 in California around the little town of Weeds on a clear day you will observe #MtShasta just like me and Elaine did earlier this week. You will be observing the same thing that we observed … albiet at a different time …under different circumstances … and you will doubtlessly describe it differently.
I think It would be illogical, absurd, and wrong for us not to acknowledge the continuity “out there” of #MtShasta itself independent of our having just driven by and watched it.
IS = reality = one’s experience of it
No ambiguity at all. If one is experiencing it, then it is reality, and it is what IS. There is nothing more, and there need be nothing more. That covers all that is known and experienced in every possible way.
Awareness, Attention is the function of the Ego; Brightness, Brilliance, Luminosity which is measured by Photons increase with Development.
(2462) CONSCIOUSNESS is awareness of the part which self takes in production of a judgment either as cause or effect - cause when I act on another, effect when I act on myself, when my hand touches my head, e.g., "I am a cause - active consciousness; passive consciousness - I am an effect". Believe a cause exists without an effect or vice versa if you like to be mystifyied. The categories of Reality are: number, space, motion, time & judgment; if it be a thing it must have unity, it must be one, or it does not exist. Also it must have extension, speed, persistence & consciousness; these cats or essentials are independent but concomitant; the thing is its component essentials; there is no "ding an sich". (thing in itself)
Found this in storage On the Reality of Higher Worlds < 36 pages in print.
In life, because we have trained ourselves to believe things are the same, we ignore all the differences and focus on the few things we can identify that are similar and then believe we are observing the same thing. The actual evidence would show that you and I do not observe the same Mt. Shasta. The highly processed and filtered evidence that we, as humans, would allow into our shared arena of perception, would show that they are similar, but even then, not exact.
So I ask, why do you assume they are the same? My answer would be “because you have trained yourself to see only that which allows you to believe they are the same”.
But yes, i do just assume that the mountain has its own continuity quite apart from human observation of it, for if i abandon that belief, then i would have to abandon how i share vast experiences with others in this life. I would have to start believing that i was living in some kind of science fiction Matrix like story. But instead, i rather love living in and directly sharing the natural firmament with others. It is my anchor to them.
I know it does not feel that way right now, because of the well trodden pathways of perceptive filtering you are accustomed to. But it is true nevertheless, and you can verify that on your own anytime you authentically desire to.
When one starts with the assumption that most everything is the same, then one is starting from a place where most everything understood is false … and that is a much larger gap to bridge … we manage nevertheless … we do manage to communicate. But, it can be soooooo much easier than that if we simply assume what others communicate to us is actually their different reality and not try and make it a same external reality seen differently, which it is not.
Start with the assumption that whatever anyone else is communicating is literally the reality they are experiencing, not a variation of your reality, but literally their reality, no matter how much it differs from your own and anyone else’s. If you start from there, a whole new kind of shared interaction will begin to develop in your experience. Your entire world will explode with a shared beauty of actual truth you never knew was there! #ThisIsGood
over here i notice that my own experience can be falsified through my senses in relation to others experience. in such cases if i always assumed that mine was valid and the other was simply in another universe, we would never get it together.
There is a place at the throat of the Olympic Peninsula where i made a round about left turn and drove Westerdly over to the coast instead of around the right side of the Olympic Mountains directly North to the Strait of Jaun de Fuca and then to #PortAngelus. I was following a map i had of the highways in my mind. My own map collapsed in favor of the firmament when i saw a sign that read “Ruby Beach” and Elaine told to me that Ruby Beach was on the coast. At that moment logic forced me to choose the common agreement of what was happening over my own internal certainty. We eventually got home because i did not “take things as they were repesented in my mind” but rather accepted the signs through my eyes and ears from outside it. You will not be able to actually visit the universe where the highways were built the way i had them going … that “reality” was just a mistake between my mind and “that which is” independent of my mind.
tag #LoaStory #PortAngelus
It could just as easily been yours and at this time both of you would remember those facts.
Because I am open to this kind of occurrence, because I believe in it, I now often experience the actual points of change, and even both paths laid out, as part of my experience and memory. Earlier in my life when I thought reality was “out there and shared” I did not experience these dual paths, converging and selecting … at least not as two experiences, but more as things like deja vu, faulty memory, and other ways people have of labeling and disregarding that which is literally different realities converging and colliding and being selected.
But i don’t remember any choice between her #reality or mine. The tuneing tension was not there between our personal realities. When we saw the road sign and she told me that Ruby Beach was on the coast i took that as information coming into our senses from the world “out there” … not a clash between our experiential realities. It was the point at which the territory itself became the map and our internal map was discarded. We laughed about it … and discarded our internal guidance just like we had to discard our position in the map in the GPS satellite earlier in the trip.
If one simply agrees with their own self to take everything anyone else communicates as a literal and valid reality (see Respect the matrix of others), then one will begin to be able to observe vibrational selection as something actually happening, and not just apply a convention of human interaction to it, to cover it over and maintain the illusion of an external shared reality.
If i assume there is only mine and Elaine’s reality, then yes, things would feel like you are descibing … but they did not feel that way to me … have never felt that way … ever … expect when i get caught up in a Matrix movie type story.
But I guess all that complexity is required if one wants to keep the outside reality as some other thing, and not just the reflection of what was vibrationally selected between the two of you.
Still not sure what you are getting with all that complexity either. The end result looks the same, feels the same, experiences the same, without the extra camel in the room.
On the positive side it does generate more confusion & helps to prolong the conversation if one wants that to happen.
Any map is a abstraction of a territory. But that does not mean that using a map is not necessary. Had my GPS not suffered a nervous breakdown and had i had accurate access to the map of the Peninsula and had followd it, then i would have gotten Elaine home to #PortAngelus 7 hours sooner then i did. Maps are useful … but no so very when they have errors in them or when they are mis-read … the same goes for the maps in our minds relative to the actuality that we call “what is”.
So the only question that we should have between us is whether this map accurately represents the salient aspects of the territory in question.
The map I use are not the feelings. The feelings are always the same.
As you say, it’s a journey, and one with a lot of new experiences to process. Where you were before is always going to feel easier and safer … until you reach the destination.
After you dropped me off at my Submarine, the fog started clearing and you and Mark had a lovely morning in San Diego (or so you told me later).
Do you remember?
are you sure i was there … and it was not just Mark dropping you off?
What is missing?
actually there never was a time where i thought to go one way, and Elaine the other. i do understand how that could be expected … but fact is it never happened here. the vibration when it happened was between us and the road which you left out of your picture.
there was just a bit of that on the other side of the Olympics when Elain was making sure that i did not turn to go to the Ho Rainforest … but that was all absorbtion on my part … i trusted her experience there without question.
I reread above and if there is more to that part of the story than a different turn, you don’t seem to have put it down. We were talking about how the map inside you was different than the map inside Elaine and the theoretical outside map. I still maintain that your map could have been the one to choose what we all now see in the mirror … even though at this point you are quite sure there is some real system of roads out there that we are all observing. I say there is not, never is. What is out there is always only showing us, reflecting back to us, what we are representing in “Our reality which is our experience of it” and that can at any moment be anything at all and where joint reality is concerned, the strongest vibration selects what is in the mirror.
… in fact, it is so that we can take such journeys, more of them, more often, that knowing reality is not fixed out there is so important!
←The Witch of Lake Crescent
well there was that aspect of what happened. A big part of that day was that it was an incrediable #LoaStory and we consciously talked about that. There seems be a point to these #LoaStory that is being attracted. We kept asking what the point of this one was? Now in retrospect it was the experience itself that we had together … actually the only one for over 40 years. So that tuneing was definitely the most important spirit of the trip. Your picture and desciption match with that #LaoStory well …
… er, except for the road, the territory in which the experience took place. I realize *you* don’t believe that exists … and so you leave it out. But my story includes it an an intrical undeniable part and not a mere reflection of something inside me and Elaine.
I don’t know what you and Mark actually did after you dropped me off, just that you told me the fog cleared and you had a nice time when I talked to you later. The main reason for you coming, that I remember, was to keep Mark company on the long drive back.
Being a passanger in a car means that you are not nearly as much aware of what is happening outisde of the car. I think this is the case. Just like Elaine does not remember the roads or towns you go through any more than i did … she was almost always a passanger on those trips. Now i can look at the map and even narrow it down to specific turns and signs that we both ignored when we encounterd them … my map of going up North on the right side of the mountains being so vivid in my mind that i could not conceive that we were actually making the long afeared drive to the coast. How can you possibly just cast out that terraign as not existing?
Enjoy the act of creating … the act of including something in your experience. Be it the first time you include it when you first observe a map of Washing state … or the later time you include it as you traverse it in a car. That IS your experience. That IS reality. What more actually needs to be there for your experience to be complete than what is there as you experience it?
I love how you both demonstrate my points so succinctly. Who’s vibration is strongest? Which reality will win? What will become in the mirror? At this point, it is not a fixed external reality, that’s all I can say.
The girl in Clallam Bay did not know of the map in my head drawn there by Lynn which was expecting quit a different T intersection. No, she symphathized with me not wanting to go back on the long winding road which never seemed to end … so she very convinceingly and honestly directed me back down to Forks … which i must admit i explored untill it made no sense. Then i returned to this intersection and was graced with a real map from the stars … which i followed quite off the Olympic Peninsula
What was the great loss ? … perhaps my own profound loss of direction. Left and Right now are independent variables … they are not persistent in my memory. Bad news for a map maker, … or a follower of direction … eh?
The reflection of your experience is in the mirror for the rest of us and we are experiencing that.
but i don’t understand your mirrors. i don’t believe i have them.
Reality … is your experience. Reality is complete. Your experience is the only thing you know that is so complete, so exact, the thing that contains everything that represents all that you know, is it not? External reality is not like that. It is only there, only accessible, when you are having an experience. When you are experiencing Port Angeles you can access Port Angeles. When you are not experiencing it, you can’t access it. At best, you can only imagine it right? At least, try and access something new about Port Angeles when you are not there and next time you are there, see if that new thing is in your experience. I bet it won’t be. It must have been imagination.
Your reality is your experience of it. Your reality experience travels. As it travels, the external mirror provides your senses with a representation of the reality experience you are having. This way you can experience it as something more than imagination, and as something that others can share with their senses. Wherever your reality experience is not traveling this moment is not in the sensory mirror … you can’t see it there. If you are not in China, you can’t see China, you can only imagine it.
But don’t get lost in all this contemplation. Simply go back to the beginning of this comment, this idea. What is out there is not complete. It does not contain all the elements of reality. It does not contain all the elements of your experience. That alone is enough to recognize what is out there as something less than reality … something like a reflection. It has all the elements a reflection has, and nothing more … at least nothing more that one is not imagining there between the looks they take at it with their senses. What is happening in the mirror out there when we are not looking, we don’t know. No one does. No one is experiencing it … therefore it is not reality. That too is like a mirror. When you are not standing in front of a mirror, you don’t exist in the mirror, do you? You only exist in the mirror when you are looking in the mirror.