nathan's distinction between authentic and honest

Si says ...
Well seth, if you have the excited impulse to reach out and touch the wrinkles on someone’s face (like a small child might do authentically) but you don’t. Then you are certainly being honest, but you are not being authentic. Honesty is simply expressing yourself consistent with your beliefs (see #LIE). Being authentic is to express the exact impulse your excitement (inner guidance) is leading you to express in any moment … which may even, in some cases, lead one to do something that is not consistent with one’s current beliefs. Sometimes being authentic can mean being dishonest.
tag #authentic #honest #honesty

Comments


#IDoNotKnow … i don’t seem to be able to act not according to my beliefs … or at least to the extent that i am conscious of such, i avoid doing that which i know i can not do.   for example:   i can not make the sun travel from West to East. 

but shucks if i am in doubt, then i may well try … depending on the direness of the consequnces.   i got a story to admit about that … but it’s embarassing … so maybe later null

yet i can #lie … i even remember doing that back there somewhere … but will not admit it now … why should i?

Acting according to your beliefs is not authenticity, it is honesty. You seem stuck on that side of the idea, not reaching over and touching upon authenticity at all.

yeah i get that.   this apparently is something in your ontology that is not over here.  i’ll study your words more carefully … maybe simulating your ontology over here … then maybe i will grasp your distinction.  maybe later when i get a tuit null … so #sethhmmm on #authenticity for now.

That’s weird. It is so simple. A very young child is almost always completely authentic. A young child translates exactly, with their physical presence, the impulses they receive from their inner being, weather it is to make a sound, reach out and touch, cry, be surprised, laugh, pee, etc.

An adult is rarely authentic (in our society). When an honest adult receives an impulse, they almost always do what they believe they should do according to that impulse. A dishonest adult does the opposite. Neither is authentic.

Young children are very authentic but have very little skill with translating impulses into physical being and no habits. Adults have great skill at manipulating the physical, and mostly do so out of pure habit, according to what they think they should do.

When adults learn to bring their great skill with the physical to the authentic impulses they sill have, but no longer listen to directly, then the world will be a completely different place. The need for externally supporting structures like government will become minimal … infrastructure supporting only. Even honesty will soften to almost non-existence. It wont matter if something is consistent with any particular persons beliefs … what will matter to each person is to most truly and skillfully express the next impulse, in their evolving dance with the authentic impulses of those who surround them.  

i don’t know.  thinking out loud again.   i rarely do what i should.  even though i almost always know what i should do.  rather i do what i do.  (which is probably my own person variation on #AC‘s “do what thou wilt”)

for example i should get up and make breakfast and then finish the bounce program so that i can just click and send out the bloody 1705b mailing null.

but am i doing that right now.   no.  i am talking to you. 

okay, got ya … that does not really have much to do with me being honest at all. 

pont being i always do what i do … whether that is what i “should” do or not is irrlivant and really none of anybody else’s business.   telling me to be authentic would be then telling me to be human.  and/or like telling me to be me … er, as if i had a choice to be sombody else.     like telling me nothing at all. 

i guess it’s the way you use the word that does not make sense to me.

i don’t know … food for thought for me. …. relative to doing what others think i should, i think i did that more in my youth than i do now.  maybe i’m not your normal human … but try getting an old lady to absorb your “shoulds” … versus … getting a little girl to do what you say she should.  in my experience the former is ammost impossible … the former is childs play.

null … and i really must go make breakfast … denise says i should now … “got to go now” desnise says … “now, now, now” … #omg i wish i had a recording …. alost did.   anyway i do go now because i want to null

Because the little girl is simply being authentic and playing with you as her heart suggests, and doing as you ask is authentically interesting and exciting to her … especially when you present it as “child’s play”.

 Because the old lady has so many layers of social expectations between any authentic impulse and what she will finally allow herself to do that she has virtually lost any contact with what is actually exciting or interesting to her, what is authentic … it’s all about what she expects of herself and others, and the narrow path of excitement she will allow herself to walk within all of that, if any.

The interesting thing about this is that it is by getting the little girl to do these “should’s”, that are ultimately ours, not hers, until they become habit for her, that is exactly what turns the little girl into an old lady. To raise a child to be an authentic adult, we must emphasize in every way possible for that child to “follow their inner guidance”, to “follow their yes”, to “tune into excitement”, and to believe the world is a safe and harmonious place for them to do so in. And that is the opposite of how children have been raised, which is to do as told “outer guidance first” and only after that fancy one’s own guidance and desires. And we get children to do this by making them afraid of what will happen if they don’t.

Fortunately, children like Darcy and Ruby, are being raised “this new way” and the results are amazing beyond anything you have ever experienced, or so those who meet Darcy and Ruby tell. To be in the presence of someone who is being 100% authentic is like being in the presence of God (or Devine source).

well that’s the way you tell the story … your cadence … your emphasis … your tempo.

here is another narration of the same thing …

Children, of their nature, absorb new habits and beliefs far faster and easier than adults.  They tend not to challenge what is given , rather accept it automatically.  there are exceptions, but those are another matter entirely.   incidentally that is common knowledge and can be deomonstrated objectively.

As i have grown and experienced and thought about my experiences and have become conscious of them and my environment,  the more and more do i go with my own instinct when it conflicts with others … i challenge everything from others just as  i challenge what i invent myself.  i am more free to choose that which i believe and what i do … no longer having to bow to the blissful built in instinctual acceptance of a learning child.

Then you have not been around children in a long time I expect. The children I am around challenge everything and take nothing for granted. It takes either force or fear to get them to vary from what their own emotions are leading them to do. Just ask any modern parent, or teacher, if you don’t experience this yourself. I bet even you went with your own instinct many times more when you were very young than you do even now. I bet it took quite a lot of exposure to “should’s” and “this horrible thing will happen if you don’t” before you started integrating the habits being offered to replace your own emotional guidance, as a child, and you are only now returning to that ability a little.

This does not contradict the ease talked about in the story above about the little girl. In that case, you are offering something in alignment with her inner being … something she is interested in doing, and most especially, being playful (as you said, child’s play). Try getting her to do something her emotions are telling her not to do and see what happens. You will find a brick wall easier to get to move than your average little girl in today’s world.

well i think both happen … and even over time … the variation being in the person themselves.  i too have seen children resistant to learning or of noticing or caring about the intentions of others … even their parents …. and i have seen them change back and forth … and come up with amazing insights themselves in what they say and do. 

and no i do not remember as a child having the instinct or freedom to do what i do. 
but i certainly do remember the blissful state of innocence … #omg i love it heart now … but then i had no idea.

Please do not mistake critical thinking and skill with thinking as instinct and inner guidance. They are not the same thing. The difference between these is yet another very clear distinction that the concept of authenticity gives definition to.

Sure, both happen in children. Being authentic is not very often consistent … for the very reason you cite … because it is the contrast between widely and/or wildly varying experiences that brings insight.

And that is yet another thing adults do with children. They constantly try to get children to be consistent, to moderate experiences, to stay focused (and even honorable) … all of which serve to disconnect children from being authentic and serves to “civilize them” … which of course creates the modern form of civilization we have today (Donald Trump, war, politics, corporate greed and corruption, epidemic level medical ailments, school shootings, terrorism, drug abuse, lying, etc) … need I say more about that?


i would say that inner instinct and guidance grows with age as innocence falls away.  There being a lot of ups and downs and variations among people along the way. 

Seems to me that you are saying it the other way around. 

Now my inner guidance is springing up and i’m going to get this mailing out the door.

Yes seth. Inner guidance is intrinsic. It is always there from the moment of birth. Physical skill, and skill at translating inner guidance and impulses into material #deeds, are what advance with age.

Some people are able to find their way back towards inner guidance as they age. They learn to hear it again in small ways here, small ways there … and in that way it builds, or actually “returns” to some degree, so it seems like it is growing with age.

I am pretty sure that most of what you are calling innocence is actually the direct experience of authenticity, that and the lack of responsibility and lack of things to fear children enjoy. Adults can have the authentic part of the experience of innocence too. All it requires is letting go of all of that learned guidance, and habits, and learned instinct (which is really critical thought) and following excitement. For a while it will feel like chaos, but soon the authenticity will build to the point where life starts getting really fulfilling and on track … and the adult skills one has to apply all that authenticity toward, start building amazing experiences.

But who will do that? Who will trade an elaborate safety net, a structure that now, as an adult, feels like sane reality itself, and the only thing seeming to separate one from those in the nuthouse, for a pair of sturdy, innocent, wings? Who would do that? null