PR: The only thing that comes to mind is: What is love? And what does that have to do with anything?
Have you seen “A Man for All Seasons?” It’s a movie about Sir Thomas More. He was head of the church of England and a friend of King Henry VIII. The king wanted More
2016 Peter Ralston Holland Interview
to lie about something and tried very hard to make him do so. More refused to, knowing this would mean that his head would be chopped off. He was put in the tower, where his daughter visited him and he told her: ‘your self is about integrity, being one, being honest with yourself and with others. Your self is like holding water in your hands; if you give your word it’s like holding water and so yourself. When you lie, it’s like you separate your fingers and the water falls through the cracks, and don’t expect to find yourself quickly again. When you do that you will lose yourself.’ She’s kind of upset about it and he says: ‘It all comes down to love.’ That is hard to understand and it is a whole domain that most people miss. Because such lying in one’s being develops slowly and seems subtle, and is also accepted by the culture.
CW: Sometimes it is even expected.
PR: That’s right. And if you do not do that you are considered dangerous. But people don’t know that they’re losing themselves because it most often happens slowly. You don’t know that your life is diminishing.
My impression of the man Peter Ralston & his work is that he lives this.
Yes. This is true. Except that today we talk about being authentic. People did not know how to be authentic until recent times. So the above ideals were attached to truth and lying. Being authentic goes way beyond truth. Authentic is the new truth. Truth is now simply that which you think long enough that it becomes your reality, and lying is now simply intentionally offering something different than you believe with the intent to deceive. These have always been this way, they are not being redefined. What is being redefined is ones very relationship to reality itself … so that now truth and lying have a new place of perspective in the greater understanding, not really a new definition.
Authenticity is your whole being, exactly what makes you you. Your core exposed and unprotected. Authenticity is beyond truth. It is the very core of your reality in all its splendor. And it is subject to exactly those factors Peter speaks of above.
Well it is clear one can tell #lies to one’s self and to others. It is not all that clear to me than one can be #inauthentic … i mean how can you not be “your whole being, exactly what makes you you”. That would seem to be a logical contradiction. Is there such a thing an an inauthentic liar? If you lie, is that not part of your whole being and exactly part of what makes you you?
So for me you have not made a distinction that really matters. If i lie, then that lie is part of me. If i am honest then that honesty resonates with me. What more are you reaching for here?
It is very easy to be inauthentic. One way is simply doing what you think others want you to do, or say, instead what you feel is authentic for you to do or say. In general, people were taught to be inauthentic as a social norm. They were taught to keep their authentic self secret, to guard it and only let it out to those they were close to and trusted. They were also taught that doing what others asked them to do, for the greater good of all, was correct. Both of those is completely inauthentic.
What makes you you is easy for you to modify when you present yourself to others … and that is being inauthentic … and has all the repercussions #PR suggests above.
well if a person lives as they were taught and expected to live, and wants to live that way, then their life tells no lie. Whereas if a person does what others want of them, but they do not want it themselves, then their living is telling a lie. I still do not get a new distinction that makes any difference.
Then perhaps you have not come up to speed with sensing your authentic self, yet. Every person has an authentic self, authentic impulses, that which they would be and do if they had taken on no other beliefs from outside their own being. This authentic self is easy to see in the very young. We often say that very young children will tell you what they really think, the truth. We don’t often say that about adults. Young children are authentic. They have not yet learned to modify what they do and say to match a pattern, a social norm, an expected behavior, a political correct way.
In every moment you can ask yourself “exactly what would I do, or say, right now if I could do or say exactly what I want, what comes to me from deep inside myself, and is not dependent on what anyone else does or thinks of me”? To whatever degree you modify your behavior from that exact inner impulse, you are being inauthentic.
Another way of seeing this is your #RingsTrue process. Every time you go through that process you are moving from a place of less authentic to a place of being more authentic. This can be done, not just with your words, but with your whole life, everything you do, every impulse you have. Being fully authentic is directly #RingingTrue as you live, moment to moment … no revision or modification required.
well i have lied in my life and at times i have not always done what i wanted to do. many times following my immediate impulses leads me into decay. on balance over my entire life i have built on what i want. to be honest with you i am the most honest person that i have ever met … and that includes you.
outside of that i don’t particularly like the subjective to you negative self serving story about me that you seem to be telling me.
Well, both of the above are equally true. But for some reason the #RingsTrue version means more to you personally.
“many times following my immediate impulses leads me into decay”
This is impossible if you are following authentic impulses. But I don’t know what you mean when you say “immediate impulses”. It may be that what you call immediate impulses are actually habits based on beliefs, and beliefs that are not your own authentic beliefs, but as Bashar says, beliefs borrowed from others. Just because something is immediate does not automatically make it authentic.
that #RingsTrue … i love to true up my writing here. it is a meditation. and feels good. i do it almost too much … reading my words back and wallowing in their truth.
#btw I know that can be an obsession that leads too deep and away from others … but that is another subject entirely.
Er … thanks for telling me , “This can be done, not just with your words, but with your whole life” … #shucks i knew that intimately … but i am sure it felt good to you to tell it to me as if i did not know
I did not tell you it “as if you did not know that fact”. I told you it as a way of understanding what authenticity is. A way to bridge something you do that is in the area of being authentic with what I am talking about.
again i still do not get the distinction. perhaps it is a matter of time and duration. but with me it changes with each moment of the #LoaSwim … i still do not get any new distinction with #authenticity that has not already been made with #honesty.
yes what i referred to as “immediat impulses” are more animalistic … more habitual … more just impulsive. i have a lot of those, my friend … and i am usually quite aware when they are what i do … somtimes the consequences are actually quite positive (see #PlasticHabits) … somtimes they lead to decay. my trick is to be on the edge where in the long run i can tilt in the direction i want to go. if you do not have those, then that may be great for you, #IDoNotKnow #IDoNotCare #notMybusiness
The difference is that what you write first when you go thought the #RingsTrue process you would never call dishonest … but, it would be called inauthentic compared to the final result.
You could say that honesty has two states, true, and false. Authenticity has only a scale, more or less.
I have far less of those now that I look for the signature of authenticity to guide my behavior. Which is almost always simply the more exciting thing. Excitement is one of the accompanying emotions that indicates degree of authenticity, among other things.
weird, i can not really parse that … sounds confused and contradictory over here.
#btw there is a another thing that happens with my deeds … and even my writings … but more particularly with my deeds … and that is in retrospect they seem more honest than what i would have though (or written, same thing) about them before the #deed.
that may well relate to my #JusDoIt (aka just #DoIt) vs your think it into #manifestation. that may well be new groud for us … whether you write it up differently or not
I think you are only beginning to have a distinction inside yourself for what authenticity is. In your #RingsTrue process you use it. As I say above, you would never start out a #RingsTrue statement with a false statement and then make it true. All you do is improve it’s authenticity. When you can apply that same process anywhere … then the distinction between authenticity and truth will become a very clear and unmistakable distinction for you. As I said in my very first paragraph above, authenticity is new. It is a new player in the field. It has replaced true and false in respect to what Peter is talking about above … and not so much replaced, but rather super seeded. Authenticity is even more of the essence of what Peter was talking about than probably even he recognized.
Authenticity is a measure of the alignment between your true self, and your presented self. Sometimes that has a relationship to truth and falseness, but not always. Always however, authenticity is directly related to your state of being.
well improving some #manifestation *is* making it ring true more thourally … see #BetterTruth.
that goes for verbal actions, like thinking in language and talking and writing
… and other kind of deeds just as well.
i still do not see any new and separate thing between that and #authenticity … except maybe the time frame of change. maybe for you #authenticity lasts 7 years … it is over that duration. me, i am dealing here in this context with just individual nows.
You have not yet learned to relate directly to state of being either. And authenticity is direct quality of state of being. State of being is really the new player on the field, the new concept, the new term. Authenticity is simply qualifier for state of being … but a very important one. The one that, as Peter describes above, determines if you hold yourself, or if your self slips through the cracks as water does through open fingers.
oh, okay … you finally told me what you mean by #authenticity …
Authenticity is a measure of the alignment between your true self, and your presented self.
… the assumption there … the belief on Faith … is the existence of a “true self”. okay that makes sense now.
me, i am agnostic on the existence of “my true self”, … for me it is not a fixed thingey, but rather changes all the time. mine seems more like something that i make up as i live. different sort of a thingey, than one given #aPriori from above … eh?
It is actually your living self that you make up as you live. Your true self is always there, does change, but more slowly, and provides you awake self with guidance and information. As Bentinto says, your true self is akin to your ever present awareness upon which all experience happens.
It is easy to get in touch with your true self through mediation, and other means. It is what one is accessing when one participates in direct knowing, as Peter (and Mark) talk about.
Your true self is your base template, the real you. Authenticity is how close you are actually living that true template. As I said, this is very easy to see in young children who live way more authentically than so called adults do.
yes now i get that is the #story you are telling. not a new story at all. i am quite familiar with it … #intimately.
You may be familiar with the story, but you say yourself that you are not familiar with the experience. Apparently there are whole lot of people having this same experience, even Peter, that you don’t have … and even keep saying you don’t want to have … as if it were a physical affliction you could catch and it would lessen your life.
well i get the #qualia of something being there just when i truly want it there … as if by magic. Feels really great … love it when that happens … and that is not a rare experience at all.
So i don’t know why you think i an not familure with the experience. And if i ever said as much i must have been confused … or maybe you were confused about what i was saying in the context i was saying it in.
… or maybe you are talking about some other experience. if so, that tell me please specifically as best as you can when it happens and what it feels like … i truly want to know.
”something being there just when i truly want it there”
Completely different experience and not even related. The experience I am talking about is the experience of intimately knowing your true self, your base template, your inner guidance as a deeper aspect independent of your living and conscious self. And I did in fact say that.
i get lots of #qualia related to myself. some of them i could interpert to be that story. but none of them match the totality of the stories that i have heard you and others tell about it. hence i remain agnostic as to #wtf you guys are talking about. of my own experiences i have no doubt … they seem to be things in and of themselves. unfortunately because of the #duality #edge i we may never be able to match them up with yours.
You say that your true self is something you make up from your conscious self … which only tells me that you have not directly accessed your true self or you would not say that about it. When you experience your true self you also experience how it is bigger than your conscious self and encompasses your conscious self … one cannot access the experience of true self and not know with clarity that it exists as a more fundamental aspect of ones being than conscious self. I have accessed it so I do know this … and the story is basically the same for all who access it.
I guess it is clear you will not be able to have a distinction for the difference between honesty and authenticity until you access the experience of your true self. So I guess this is end of subject because you are unwilling to access your true self and desire to hold onto the idea that you make it up.
If one does not leave the Earth, then one can consider the Moon a made up place. That seems end of story.
nathan makes up that i said, ”You say that your true self is something you make up from your conscious self” … but nope, i never said that.
if you had listened to what i have said about my #unconscous and what i actually do, you would know that i would not say such a thing.
it is hard for me to read the rest of your paragraphs with that contra factual made up story about me being its premise. i’m gonna need a on that one.
Poppycock. I simply summarized this “me, i am agnostic on the existence of “my true self”, … for me it is not a fixed thingey, but rather changes all the time. mine seems more like something that i make up as i live.”
You said it right there “I make up [my true self] as I live” and that is all I re told changing the word live to the words conscious self is all. Same thing. If you are being stopped, then you are being stopped by your own inconsistancy.
nothing in what i said about me being conscious (substitute aware) of everything that creates myself.
fact is i know that i am not so aware.
Whatever. Titting over word semantics doesn’t change the issue. You have not had a direct experience of your true self. Until you do, there is no reason to go on further about the difference between Authenticity and Honesty … you don’t have a reference for it. Might as well be trying to relate the huge difference between the color red and the color green with you … it would feel the same and have at best about the same end result … I would know the difference, you would only admit that there could be a difference.
But, you are not color blind to your true self. The fact that you have not experienced it directly is by choice, not genetics.
i guess you did not read what i said above about my qualia experience of myself and how there really is no way for you to know if they are what you think they are not … nor do i know of a way that i can honestly tell you if they are the experiences at which you wave.
I know that you have not directly experienced your true self. If you had, you could not in any way say that it seems more like something you are making up. The actual experience of true self would not ever be described that way by anyone. In order for you to say that, and all the other things you have said about true self, and the fact that you are not seeing a substantial difference between honesty and authenticity, paint a very clear picture. You do not directly experience your true self.
yep i have heard that story before. and a long time ago too. the fact remains that you do not know. if you say you do, you are telling me a #LIE.
Okay. In Love - Lying (comment 71454) you say the same thing I said. You don’t know #WTF we are talking about. Which says very clearly that you have not had a direct knowing experience. Same thing. I don’t know why you keep belaboring this. You don’t have a reference for understanding the difference between authenticity and honesty. That is clear from my side, and clear to you by your own words as well. What else is there?
I don’t know what? I know you don’t describe a direct knowing experience. You also say you don’t have this experience I and others describe. What is there to #LIE about? We all agree, you don’t have that experience.
#btw … just to give you a hint … maybe shortcut a bit of back and forth. i believe that our actual experiences of our own “higher selfves” to which you refer may actually be quite similar … but the big difference in how we talk about them lies in our different stories about them … or said differently, you interpert yours different than i interpert mine.
This really does seem like the exact same conversation as trying to explain the difference between red and green to you. You would be saying all the same things … even saying you might be having my experience and if I say I know you are not, then I am #lying … even though you are holding two bike parts up, one red and one green, and saying they are the same color.
No seth. You would never say that your true self seems like something your living self makes up. You would never say that in in way, shape, form, or context, or story, if you actually experience true self. You could not … it would be like calling the color red the color green if you could see the difference between them. It simply would not happen if you are telling the truth and not lying about your experience.
yep … that is edging tward the #duality … talking about any experience of “higher self” is like talking about blue to a person who has never experienced it.
#btw did you know that in ancient Greece people did not talk about the sky being blue. The ability to experience #blue had yet to enter humanity. Look it up, it really is a very interesting story.
Okay. I have heard that about Greece before … I think even from RS.
There is only one point I am making … and that is that you have to go have an actual experience of true self before we can continue talking about the difference between honesty and authenticity. And you saying I am #lying in knowing this is absurd. I know it because I have gone there. I have the direct experience. You have not yet, that is clear in many different ways as I explained above.
the point is that you do now know whether i have had that experience or not.
… and that is what you would say about red and green too … and from the telling of the story by my Mom, you had about the same things to say and same beliefs for a long time before you accepted that people really did know that you did not have the same experience of color that they did. Even things you say today suggest that you still don’t think your experience is that radically different from other peoples … even though there are apps for iPhone now that show exactly what the difference is, and those difference match exactly what you descibe, like that the brown background on single thoughts is almost the same as the green background on groups (and the app shows that) … but you tell me that you only have a mild color blindness … which the app shows is not mild at all, you see the world of color hugely different than I do.
For whatever reason, this is your Lot in life … to believe that others cannot know your experience and if they say they do they are #lying ... it’s bullshit, but it is what you believe.
I knew early on that my red/green/brown colors were not matching with others. It may well have been Elaine who found that test which explained it. Threre was no denial before or after the test … i knew by the way people were quite so very sure about green that i was not getting it … obviously it was mildly frustrating. The same thing is happening now, only there is no objective test that we can perform.
Fact remains that you do not know what i experience. I think i experience the very same natural #edges that you do … but i interpert them according to my story, not yours.
Okay. Well having had the experience of true self and direct knowing, I can tell you for sure that you have not had them. Because if you had, you could not say that you are only interpreting them different. When you have those experiences, you most likely will have many aspects that are unique to you, but saying that they seem like something you make up from your living experience will never be a difference between your telling and my telling. It would be as impossible to say that about a direct experience of true self as saying green is red if we both have the actual experience of green and red. You have to only be imagining the experience, or having some other kind of experience, to be able to say that.
no you can not. that is a natural fact. you are still telling me a #LIE.
me, i look at this peculiar #LIE and i ask of it, what does it do? … what is it in and of itself? … why do so many people tell it to me so insistantly. What are they doing? What profits them?
In this arena, your statements are as objective as colored dot tests are for color blindness. Anyone who has had a direct knowing experience will agree with that. Even though you won’t until you do have the experience.
okay you are repeating yourself.
#LOL … okay then. It’s your fantasy. When you figure out why all these people from such varied walks of life and relationships to you personally are saying the same thing, you let me know. I am sure it is easier to believe we are all lying to you than it is to accept that you are unwilling to go have this experience for yourself.
my other guess at what you meant would have been more useful to delve into … the one i mentioned in Love - Lying (comment 71452) … that has more to do with #LOA … and the important matters you have brought up recently.
i should #thanks → nathan on that one … i can see something there that i did not before
this other is just a bad vibration … a waste of time … a vibration that tries to carry a signal but cannot.
Authenticity relates to #LOA in that it is a direct indicator of vibration. Living authentically is living in one’s true vibrational state. Thus the more one is able to do it, the more one taps into the benefits of the Law of Attraction and the more one is able to predict what they are creating … and also all the things Peter said above.
That’s where this started. But it cannot end until you step up to the plate and play in this ballpark.
i hear you daddy … you don’t need to keep shouting
Authenticity is not the same as “not lying” .
One of Werner’s things about authenticity is giving your word or honoring your word as yourself. Say what you are going to do & do what you say without reservation. Somewhere in fbi are some excruciating detailed papers of his on the subject.
Love - Lying (comment 71423) ← 3rd & 4th sentence seem not true. been around for a long time , well before you were born; as long as the Ego consciousness we have today can be traced.
I agree with all of that, except perhaps “giving your word” but only if you mean it in the promise (contractual) sense. If you mean it as you added as “honoring your word as yourself” then I agree with that too.
You see, the thing about authenticity is that it must be honored in this moment. Sometimes it may even bring forth something that is in disagreement with a prior contract or promise. To truly be authentic, in the way Peter is saying above, one must still honor authentic impulses even if they disagree with a prior contract because one is able to trust that authentic impulses are up to speed with everything in the current moment, and prior contracts may not be.
If you are already doing something (“in the NOW”) your word is nothing remarkable. Your form of “giving your word” is just mungeablitity of your own new age, wishy-washy, no power in it. In fact, you are not agreeing with Erhard. Peter doesn’t do your version of “authentic impulses” go take one of his martial arts classes in person & find out.
Maybe also refer yourselves to the thought 17204 on the Art of Discourse.
Well, as Seth is fond of saying, perhaps that is only your take on Peter, not the real deal.
I have not seen or heard anything that says Peter does not fully agree with modern understanding … but I do see that Peter targets a particular belief demographic in his presentation of material, and you are in that demographic … and that may simply be where you are coming from.
As you thinking you have the modern understanding is your munged point-of-view as well. Maybe doubt is your greatest tool of conversation. Not Knowing is PR’s tool of contemplation. Maybe try some nathan
Yes. I practice no-knowing as well. Everything I relate comes from that no-knowing place. It is channeled through clean and pure. I relate it to you direct and authentically, just like #PR, or #RS, or Abraham, or even Jesus. You are getting the real deal with me too.