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Value

"X has Value" is meaningless to me personally ... for i can find no tangible examples of that relationship in the consequences of the world. 

I can however find plenty of examples of "X has Value to Y".  
by seth on [group seth] at 2014-11-26 08:06:33, changed 2014-11-26 08:13:07 [permalink 17974]



Ferguson took a Shit
Context shifting produced the Watts Riots, the OJ riots, the DC riots & all the rest.
by M on [group mark] at 2014-11-25 07:59:52 [permalink 17972]
10 comments
seth 2014-11-25 08:45:34 [item 17972]
M 2014-11-25 08:31:26 [item 17972]
seth 2014-11-25 08:15:32 [item 17972]
Well now i don't know what you mean by "context shifting".  You might want to explain if you want to be able to use the term for the purposes of communication.
Context of a big hoodlum robbing a convenience store with a friend who goes on to assault a cop - versus the context of black-white racial cause celeb for riots & burining down neighborhoods.
Of course you know what context shifting is.


Well it sounds to me that you have defined two different contexts there .... some people perceive and feel and act in one ... some other people in the other.  There is third context here too, one where  the laws and courts over favor police power allowing too many unnecessary killings together with the knowledge that it could be changed.  Those three context clashed.  Where is the shift?   Or maybe more pertinent, who shifted one context to the other?   Do you see what i am getting at here?  .... this is not a shift ... this is a clash. 
One real event powered it all
people describe it in different contexts to suit their own purpose!

source: ... THE ST. LOUIS COUNTY GRAND JURY that declined to indict Darren Wilson, a white police officer, in the shooting death of Michael Brown, an unarmed black 18-year-old, hears evidence wildly at odds with the narrative that stoked violent rioting, including witness testimony that Brown was charging at Wilson when he was shot.
...wtf - of course the M$M keeps emphasizing the black & white of it all & that Wilson was unarmed & even his age or (teenager).
seth 2014-11-25 09:46:20 [item 17972]
source: mark
One real event powered it all
people describe it in different contexts to suit their own purpose!


Well in Ferguson people told lies, shaded facts, and acted oblivious to others.  I rather suspect that happened both in the community and in the law & order institutions. 

Is that also what happened here ?  If so, how so?  If not, then shouldn't we remove the "context shifting" association from either this item or that item, for it should not be associate with both, if they are not both the same in some way?
changing quad(x,y,z,c) with c = context changes the meaning & the viewpoint.  If that is your purpose then have at it.  That's not mine.   Thats why I like the fair-witness notion of Stranger in a Strange Land fame, your context shifting notwithstanding. It does require the Zen ability to see what is so from the shit spinning around it, though ....

seth 2014-11-25 10:21:34 [item 17972]
source: mark
changing quad(x,y,z,c) with c = context changes the meaning & the viewpoint. 
Yes certainly .   Note also that different c's (contexts) are felt and acted upon by different people and different institutions.

... If that is your purpose then have at it.  That's not mine.  

huh?   That's not my purpose, that is the way things are, imho.  People see and feel and act differently according to their context and their roots.  Do you not find it to be the same ?

... Thats why I like the fair-witness notion of Stranger in a Strange Land fame, your context shifting notwithstanding. It does require the Zen ability to see what is so from the shit spinning around it, though ....
Yes that is great ... some people can do it better than others .... some are pretty good at seeing with compassion into other contexts in which they have not developed ... but nobody can see "what is so" from all contexts simultaneously ... we do, however, try to get better and better at it.


I know doubt & mungeability as prevalent contexts of politicians & some other people.  Not all points of view & contexts have equal value.  Some would like them to be so that any objection to another's context has equal value. Such makes up the courtroom & political agenda.  Eiamyme can see the most context free description of an event & go with that in most cases. That's somewhat like the scientific method only with a more general domain, eh?

By the way a LIE is a context that is the way a person wishes or thinks thinks are or were.
seth 2014-11-25 12:08:03 [item 17972]
Eiamyme 2014-11-25 11:20:53 [item 17972]
By the way a LIE is a context that is the way a person wishes or thinks thinks are or were.
yep.
One can always ask cui bono - to what benefit, especially the media, get from cranking it up such that riots happen. More TV  time ... same for other media like the internet.  Are there politicians benefiting from the riots? Are there lawyers benefiting? Is the 'race industry' benefiting? Is one particular political party benefiting?  I think we have context shifting for fun & profit, eh? Who is not winning or benefitting?  Are those communities, especially the mixed neighborhoods benefiting or losing? 
Generally speaking, while not a perfect solution, which may emerge is all who carry a gun for law enforcement will eventually have to wear a camera to track what is happening like the black box in an airplane.

Eiamyme 2014-11-25 11:13:54 [item 17972]
seth 2014-11-25 10:21:34 [item 17972]
source: mark
changing quad(x,y,z,c) with c = context changes the meaning & the viewpoint. 
Yes certainly .   Note also that different c's (contexts) are felt and acted upon by different people and different institutions.

... If that is your purpose then have at it.  That's not mine.  

huh?   That's not my purpose, that is the way things are, imho.  People see and feel and act differently according to their context and their roots.  Do you not find it to be the same ?

... Thats why I like the fair-witness notion of Stranger in a Strange Land fame, your context shifting notwithstanding. It does require the Zen ability to see what is so from the shit spinning around it, though ....
Yes that is great ... some people can do it better than others .... some are pretty good at seeing with compassion into other contexts in which they have not developed ... but nobody can see "what is so" from all contexts simultaneously ... we do, however, try to get better and better at it.


I know doubt & mungeability as prevalent contexts of politicians & some other people.  Not all points of view & contexts have equal value.  Some would like them to be so that any objection to another's context has equal value. Such makes up the courtroom & political agenda.  Eiamyme can see the most context free description of an event & go with that in most cases. That's somewhat like the scientific method only with a more general domain, eh?


Well "X has Value" is meaningless to me personally ... for i can find no tangible examples of that relationship in the consequences of the world. 

I can however find plenty of examples of "X has Value to Y".  

I'm pretty sure that you will be able to logically derive the rest of my comments relative to yours above from those two beliefs.

choy 2014-11-26 09:02:21 [item 17972]
How about this conversation is losing any value to me because of persistent argumentativeness.

which is an excellant example of "X has Value to Y", thanks

and your saying that had some value to me ... though not, i presume, the same value it had to you. 
seth 2014-11-26 09:21:17 [item 17972]
choy 2014-11-26 09:02:21 [item 17972]
How about this conversation is losing any value to me because of persistent argumentativeness.

which is an excellant example of "X has Value to Y", thanks

and your saying that had some value to me ... though not, i presume, the same value it had to you. 
You have value to me - that's why I am responding. Wikipedia has both ethical & economical contexts for value. Value is a long boring argument/topic so I will not be arguing its finer points at this time.  Maybe some other time if I get a




i'll have to play ... certainly i have a stupid selfie laying around
by seth on [group seth] at 2014-11-24 09:54:05, changed 2014-11-24 09:54:57 [permalink 17971]



Cell Mitosis



hit play

Oh  the pain of division

... and  the joy of dissolution 
by seth on [group seth] at 2014-11-24 08:26:29, changed 2014-11-24 08:31:35 [permalink 17970]



Diversity is part of Freedom

Think about it, we cannot have freedom without diversity ... and we cannot have diversity without freedom.  The more freedom, the more diversity ... the less diversity the less freedom.  These are two things which always appear together.  It's almost as if, they were different parts of the same thing.

Here's another way to put it:  if you observe diversity in a environment, you are seeing the effects of freedom there ... or ... if you experience freedom within a context, expect to see diversity there too.


by seth on [group seth] at 2014-08-29 07:46:57, changed 2014-11-24 08:18:51 [permalink 17698]




Eiamyme 2014-11-22 12:24:40 [item 17965]
Eiamyme 2014-11-22 12:21:51 [item 17965]
Sin Pook I,30,21 ...    via P.2213
source: This is the creation of the world, that the pain of division is as nothing, and the joy of dissolution all.
...



......................................................................................................................


"
consequences give us knowness
and freedom gives us otherness

" -- Bozo Faust
... yet another interpertation


Saying that "Love breeds Freedom" as CFR did, is talking about the same effect as i was talking about when i said "Diversity is part of Freedom" last August ... or as i put it above, "freedom gives us otherness".

When Mark flashed Crowley's epistle, " This is the creation of the world, that the pain of division is as nothing, and the joy of dissolution all", i tried hard to comprehend what he was talking about ... there was no context given, yet the words themselves are clear enough.  So when CFR gave his alternate interpretation of that as "love breeds freedom" i suddenly understood what Crowley was saying.  Of course cell division, that miraculous event, is the most passionate interpertation of "the pain of division" yet with "the joy of dissoultion" being all.  Crowley's was the most poetic. 
by seth on [group seth] at 2014-11-23 09:44:40, changed 2014-11-24 07:04:42 [permalink 17967]



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